Sticking with 5.1 layout vs squeezing in 7.1?

[chris-lukowski]

Hi Everybody, I’ve hit a snag in my layout planning and need some advice. Attached are some pictures of my room and a SketchUp of what I plan to do. I’m 70% confident that sticking with a 5.1 layout would result in better sound, but the part that isn’t sure is really nagging me. Relevant stats posted below. My rear wall isn’t ideal due to the fact that it’s an entryway, has a coat rack, and a staircase all right there. What concerns me most is whether I can give the speakers the right positioning that 1) won’t make my bed layer sound worse and 2) won’t muddle the channel separation with my in ceiling Atmos speakers, especially if they’re mounted too high. In particular I’m worried that the upmixing from my AVR for 5.1 or 2.1 sources will amplify any placement or speaker choice issues* vs content with actual Surround Back content. Finally I’ve read in a few places that 7.1 layouts should only be used for rooms 350sqft or more, and mine is 241sqft not counting the open concept areas (which should only matter for the subs I assume). Should I even be considering this or is FOMO getting to me? If surround backs won’t make much difference or will make things worse for an area like this let me know. Or tell me it’s with it if that’s your assessment. Thanks!

* Even though I really want 1723 S Surrounds for my sides I don’t think I have the space for them in the back. I need clearance for my entry door to open and also body clearance for entering / exiting the staircase. The 1961 Surrounds and Bookshelves are narrower but also stick out more. From a design standpoint I’m not sure any wall mounted speaker won’t stick out like a sore thumb, making things lean towards just sticking with 5.1

Living Room Area Dimensions: 11.5’W x 21’L x 8’H (extended window well on left, open to dinette area on right)

MLP: 13’ from front wall, 38” high

Planned 5.1 Speakers: 1723 S Monitors & Surrounds, 1723 1V Subwoofers

Side Surround: 67.5” MLP center to side walls, distance to baffle from main seats more like 46”, 100° angle from MLP center, height 46”-61” bottom to top

Back Wall: 100” distance, maximum speaker separation 48” for ~165° position each, coat rack 68” off of floor & 40” wide

Attachments:

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[Michael]

I kind of have the same room where it doesn’t really have the size for 7 channel surround. I’m just doing the 5.2.4 and my ears seem to be having a good time. I think 5 channel surround is just fine. it’s the height/atmos that really makes my home theater come alive IMHO.

[Luis Vazquez]

Unless you have a spare bedroom that you can use, I’m also thinking that 5.2.4 would be the better option in your space.

[Lukas]

Agree with Michael and Luis, keep the 5-channel bed layer.

You are sitting very close to the surround speakers, which means they will have a much more direct sound than the surround backs behind you. The surround back speakers will have more reflections from the room, as sound travels longer, and will create a mismatch between to sound characters. It will not sound balanced when effects are panning between the channels.
4 surround channels work best if you have the same distance to all of them.

[chris-lukowski]

Thank you guys SO MUCH! I posted the same question on another audio forum and most people there were encouraging me to mount some Surround Backs on either side of the coat rack at about that height. Would have upped the project by $1200 with a pair of 1961 Heights and moving from a 5-channel to a 7-channel Emotiva XPA amplifier. I appreciate the vote of confidence in the 5.2.4.

Also FWIW unless Arendal has any surprises up their sleeve I plan to go with RSL C24E MKII’s for the in-ceiling Atmos speakers. The woofer baffles are aimed at 15° and the tweeters can be aimed at 30°. On-ceiling speakers like the 1961 Heights would stick out too much.

[Lukas]

The RSL speakers seem like a good choice. We have some customers using them and they match well from what I can tell.
No custom install products from us in the near future, unfortunately.

[Luis Vazquez]

As Lukas indicated, those RSL speakers should be a very good choice.  Once things are in place and you have some time with the system, please let us know how things worked out for you.  Have fun and enjoy the journey…

[Fsm1th5]

Sigh. You’re using sketchup… this is for you to figure it out.

Use the protractor and angles from the main listening position to see whether you can or not.

This is vital. 135-150 degrees from center which is 0.

Sides at 90-110.

For 5.1 surrounds at 110-120 degrees.

Now then onto height. Side surrounds up to 20 degrees elevation from ear level. And rear surrounds up to 25 degrees elevation.

 

Then you do your atmos placement based on those.

Starting from 45 degrees elevation. You can go up to 55 when the surrounds are elevated to compensate.

 

Please do your design on this information then post back with what you’ve come up with.

 

I trust this helps.

[arkmann]

Chris good question.  I had a 7 speaker HT setup with 4 wall mounted surrounds. The 1st side pair was near the listening seats with 2 more surrounds further back.  Found that the 2 back surrounds added little so if I did it again I would go with just the 2 side mounts.  Is it possible to try and listen with just 5 and then add 2 more if you’re not happy?  Experimenting is part of the journey.  Let us know what you decide.  Good listening!

[chris-lukowski]

Alright, one more question before I can put this question aside. IF I were to configure my back-of-couch furniture in such a way that makes surround back speakers aesthetically possible on stands, how far back would said surrounds (such as 1961 bookshelves) have to be in order to sound “as intended”, ie not calling undue attention to themselves by feeling like they’re blasting right into somebody’s ear? I see a lot of setups where the surrounds stands are right against the back of the couch and my gut feeling is that wouldn’t sound right, correct?

[Lukas]

Hi Chris,

Right against the couch is not great. I would give any speaker at least 5 feet of distance to the listener’s ears.